Speaker I was hired in 1972 and I must have met him right around the Watergate time. Because that was my first story. And it was a biggie. And I actually think the first time I met him personally must have been when he honcho that big two parter on Watergate, which was extremely controversial. And although I wasn’t on the air with any part of it, I worked on it because I had covered the story from the beginning. He was so brave.
Speaker Can I ask you a question? Can you start? That’s one of my big questions. Very important. I want to hear that story to talk about the Watergate special, the two programs that you did. What was it the first time?
Speaker I actually doesn’t. I just have to get. Okay.
Speaker OK with that story. The two parter on Watergate was important one, because it was Walter Cronkite telling the public this is an important story. Watergate had been floating around a little bit around the edges. The Washington Post was running with it. But that was The Washington Post for CBS News, the program, the news program that was watched the most. We were the number one rated show for that to expend so much time. My memory is the first piece ran about 14 minutes, which was more than half the show. And then the second piece was at least more than half that. Seven, eight minutes for him to put his own prestige on the line by telling the public, this is how important I think this story is, is enormous and propel the story really from below the fold. As they would say in newspaper lingo to the lead story was a very powerful message. And Walter Cronkite, don’t forget, was the man who put the Vietnam War on the map. Now, he was putting Watergate on the map, challenging, in a way, the president. It was huge.
Speaker And now in terms of the Watergate hearings, what would you tell me a little bit about that period end and CBS is role and.
Speaker Well, Watergate started and everybody well, Watergate started and of course, the Nixon White House said that’s a third rate break in and entering. It’s nothing. And it just percolated until the Senate decided to hold hearings. Now, in those days, a lot of your audience isn’t going to believe this, but we actually ran them live. This was something you wouldn’t see today. News all day long. Actually, the three networks rotated ABC, CBS and NBC every other day. We we would run. It would be our turn every third day, actually. And so we were on the air all day long with these hearings every third day, every night. CBS News had a special where we would repreve the most important things that had happened that day. And once again, Walter was our leader on this. He he we were in those days. There was there was the team. Walter came on the evening news and it was Walter and his team and anybody who had a story in the show had their name right at the beginning. So it was Walter in the Horsman, so to speak. But nevertheless, it was Walter. He had the respect of the country and he was kind of saying, here are the Senate hearings today. Here’s what happened today and CBS News. Our coverage was incredibly comprehensive, something you just don’t see today. Maybe cable network would put it on. But the enormous numbers of people watched. CBS News in those days, three, four times what the number is today.
Speaker What for you, do you think it caught Cronkite’s greatest achievements at CBS? Watergate certainly is something that seems to be important. But what else do you think he.
Speaker The things that he will be most remembered for, well, Vietnam, Watergate. Space, space, shots. Political coverage in general. But those are just. Oh, the Middle East. Walter himself was very active in all the peace negotiations in the Middle East. He interviewed Sadat and Bagan and all of them, and he would go over there himself. And when they came to the United States, Walter was doing the big interviews. But it’s it’s it’s a bigger thing than that, because Walter was a power center. He was he. If the four of our founding fathers had established our system of government to have three branches and the fourth estate as the fourth leg is a balancing act. Walter was the fourth leg, really? CBS News. In in Walter’s era was the most powerful of the four. And he was. It was right that the public trusted him. I trusted him. He was sane and you might think, oh, well, like the same. I can’t tell you how important I have come to appreciate that one single quality was. He was smart. He was a great journalist. But he was saying.
Speaker Now, I’m interested in the hostage crisis that you covered a great deal. We have wonderful footage of you, and I wondered, too, if you could talk about the impact and the way you all reported that on the U.S. government, how how it dealt with the crisis. Do you feel that the way you were reporting it had an impact?
Speaker I was covering the White House at the time, and they certainly thought that the networks had an impact and most particularly CBS, because that was the number one rated first. This is so interesting. First, the Carter White House wanted us to publicize what was happening. They wanted us to be on the air talking about this. And, of course, even though eventually Jimmy Carter would get blamed and he would be hurt by this, in the beginning, the country rallied together. So they wanted this out. Then they didn’t want us to talk about it. And they turned on us and said, you’re promoting this. You’re giving the terrorists, the Iranians too much publicity. And I was being the White House correspondent. I was buffeted around a little bit by the pressure from the White House, first promoting it, then telling us not to talk about it. It was a difficult time. Walter, of course, started the business of what day it was, how many days the hostages had been held. And by the time we got to that, the White House was begging us not to. Talk about it, but it was too late. It was the number one story for, what was it, 400? And I forget how many days. That was a very tough time in the country. It was a very difficult time to cover the White House because when the president becomes unpopular, the press becomes more powerful. It’s a very interesting dynamic. And we became stronger. Just because the president became weaker, there’s a finite amount of power in the press as part of that universe of power. And we we did we became negative about the president. They didn’t like it.
Speaker Now, do you feel that somewhat that every day reminding the public this is the 100th day? This is a hundred and twenty fifth the 100th day. You feel that in some ways that put pressure on the government to try to do that rescue mission, which ended up being such a disaster?
Speaker Well, that that was the the argument the White House made was the more publicity we gave and the constant reminder on the day, what day it was and so forth was putting was making it impossible for the White House to to do quiet diplomacy or quiet pressure or give a signal to the Iranians that we don’t care. So it doesn’t do you any good to keep them whatever message they wanted to send in a quiet way they were incapable of doing and that they were forced to respond to the public pressure that they thought we were creating. And that was when they decided it wasn’t a good idea to publicize it as they had first wanted us to do and and began to pressure me because I was the face there to stop doing this. But of course, we couldn’t. And I remember myself being pressured by the families. Me personally and thinking in my own mind, well, why shouldn’t an individual in this country have access? Two to me as much as the president. Why not? I began to think that the families had a right to have their voices heard on network television just as much as the president. I actually came to believe that. And that was the family’s argument. The White House had a counterargument. You’re you’re you’re forcing us. You’re for you’re pressuring us through this by political pressure. To do things we might otherwise not do.
Speaker Now, when you ask about the rescue mission, I think that they are they they were sure that was going to succeed. They had every reason to think it would succeed.
Speaker Forces came in to play like a windstorm or in a sandstorm, all those things. But.
Speaker They might well have done that with or without the pressure.
Speaker I want to go back to Watergate and the fact that Nixon launched such a campaign against the press, particularly CBS, having Agnew make his speeches and stuff, can you? I think a lot of people don’t remember that time. Could you talk a little bit about that period and the kind of why was CBS in the forefront? Even Walter was. Mm hmm.
Speaker Well, if there’s one thing I’ve learned when politicians get in trouble, they blame the press. And you can see it historically. It’s it’s blame the messenger. We’re the whipping boy. And as Nixon’s ratings began to fall, he began to really turn on us. He had his vice president go out and blame the press, nabobs of negativism, all of that business. And CBS became a major target because we were the most popular. And because they had this well, I don’t know if they actually believed it or they whipped it up, that we were all liberals out to get the Republicans. And that became almost a mantra that carries through to today through Republican administrations that CBS is the most liberal. I think it started just because we were the most popular.
Speaker And they are there.
Speaker They had no other place to go during Watergate.
Speaker But to blame us now, Cronkite is very proud of his being as as sort of center down the line in his reporting, not expressing his opinion. However, he crossed the line on Vietnam. And after the Tet Offensive, he came back and did his and it was unusual to hear his his his commentary on victory. And I wondered, what do you feel about that? Do you feel that he did cross the line? And was that an appropriate thing for him to do?
Speaker You know, I I have come to the view that some things that have been called commentary.
Speaker Ah, just the truth.
Speaker And even if you’re going to be accused of crossing a line and getting into opinion or commentary, sometimes there’s just a simple, simple truth. And we shouldn’t be afraid of it. We are afraid of it, but we shouldn’t be. And the older I get, the more I feel there is well, there are that over the years we’ve moved away from our ability to just state a simple truth. I think it’s one of the reasons that our ratings have fallen. I have a daughter, 28 years old. What she wants someone in news to tell her is not there’s this side and that side is which side is the answer. And there often is. And Walter went over to Vietnam and came back and told the truth.
Speaker Cronkite is in is famous for his interview with Sadat in which the peace process between Egypt and Israel began. And I was wondering, was that diplomacy on television? That’s when he sort of pushed Sadat to sort of say, when are you going to get it? Tell me about what you what your thoughts are.
Speaker Well, when Walter interviewed Sadat and sort the whole peace process started on television with Walter Cronkite, that was kind of a first. And then journalists and anchor men particularly try to do that ever after. That became something that the anchor man. Seemed to get into the business of I suppose you could call it diplomacy by now. I think it’s almost expected. But Walter was the first to do that. And why not? Why not? He what? Walter was a power center. He was he was a force. No anchor man will ever be that powerful again because no anchor man will ever have that audience again. People watch news and too many different outlets now. But in those days, he was he was just a huge factor. And I think, frankly, he used his power wisely. He never did it often. There are the you can talk about all the moments in an hour. You can get them all in. So he didn’t abuse the power that he had. And when I said before that, he was saying, this is what I’m talking about. He could have become many. It could have become scary. He could have had the power. To really run with it. You know, it could have been something could’ve gone off the tracks. That’s that’s how much power he could have wielded that he did it so infrequently. So to his credit.
Speaker Great. What internal journalistic terms, the history of journalism, where do you think Cronkite fits and what do you feel is his. Think what what is is what will he be known for?
Speaker Well, it’ll certainly be a moment in time. The Cronkite era.
Speaker It came and it went. I think it will be noted for.
Speaker Let me thank you, sir, for one minute, because I want to say something, I know what I want to say. The Cronkite era had a beginning and an end when he started and what he left, and it will be noted, I think, for responsible. Journalism mainly. He had he had the audience, he had the power to do much more than he did. And he just held it in check. Could it become a he could have become demagogic. He could have. But he. He just he he only. When out. You might say crossing a line. I don’t. But he only went out and really began to really effect change when he actually bubbled over. Couldn’t contain it anymore. There’s a time of of enormous, responsible, important journalism. And he was a great leader. You know, we all wanted to please Walter. He was a natural leader. It’s also a great storyteller, by the way. He took it. He had it all. He was a he was a really dedicated journalist who understood the seriousness of the position he was given. But he was also an entertainer, even even if you knew him personally, if you went out to dinner with him, he would. He is a great rock on her. He told great jokes, never mean, never mean, he was he was decent to everybody. You don’t hear stories about Walter slicing this person or walking over that person just just in the way he conducted himself within CBS. He was he was a man of balance when he says he he didn’t have politics and walked down the middle. That’s true. I actually don’t know what his politics are. And when when a Republican White House would rear its head, I think Walter was middle of the road and maybe contributed to keeping the country as a moderate, centrist kind of place. I would even go that far. I would say he he he helped do that.
Speaker Now, he Cronkhite always talks about how he was merely the tip of an enormous iceberg of journalistic excellence when he was at CBS. Do you think that’s true?
Speaker I absolutely think that’s true. I came in at sort of the upswing of the Cronkite era. And when you look at the giants that were in the Washington bureau when I arrived, the the offices were like shadow boxes were like the windows at Macy’s. You know, they there were no doors. And all those stars, those journalistic stars were on display.
Speaker You start over here and there was Dan Rather and Daniel Schorr and Roger Mudd and Marvin Kalb and George Herman. And that was the front row.
Speaker Then there was a second row, another row of offices behind them of just as great people like Robert Pierpoint to Nelson Benton and Bernie Kalb. And the what I’m saying is the depth, but no heat. It was a journalistic era of smart, smart people who many of whom came out of print, some out of academic backgrounds. They were all serious and they were the sons. They were the babies of the Edward R. Murrow time.
Speaker Now, my my last question is, you obviously are of the second generation and you.
Speaker Were you aware as you were growing up. Of of Cronkite’s reporting, for example, on the moon? Can you recall?
Speaker I was a big grown up by then. I was already in journalism. You were right. I was working for NBC in 69.
Speaker Were you were you all right?
Speaker I mean, did you sort of his interest in space did that? Did he communicate his love of space exploration? Did you find that his reports that sort of excited or captured something that was in America at the time?
Speaker Absolutely. Walter was was the era when I say the Cronkite era and you can talk about presidents and you can talk about their influence on on what people talked about, what they cared about. But you have to include Walter Cronkite. So the space age coincides with Walter and the excitement the country felt for our exploration up there in the stars and so forth, was excited by Walter Cronkite. He his love of that subject and his enthusiasm for that subject brought the rest of us along with him and the presidents, too, of course. But he was a big part of that huge and you know, the whole CBS News operation was infused with his enthusiasm for space and anything else he got interested in.
Speaker Now, were you aware of the constant competition? Because ABC at the beginning wasn’t that much of. Right. But NBC was.
Speaker And with Brian, I worked for Huntley Brinkley and I did a little bit about the competition. OK, well, I started my career at NBC and I worked for the Huntley Brinkley report, which was number one when I worked over there. So there was this competition was Walter was two, and then Walter came in and surpassed NBC. And once he overtook them, he never looked back and went surging ahead. So for my time once I got to CBS in the early 70s until Walter left, I believe I’m right. At least my memory and my sense of it is that we were number one. And certainly the White House treated us as the number one.
Speaker Partly because of the times changing with Kennedy’s assassination and then with Vietnam escalating. Do you feel that somehow with Huntley Brinkley, it was it was a lighter touch to the news reporting and I think they broke up.
Speaker When did they break up? No, I think they broke up. I can’t remember what time they stopped. They didn’t continue together. I don’t remember it. I don’t know. I can’t answer that. I don’t think that’s true. They were. No, they weren’t a lighter touch. They were very soon. No, I don’t. I don’t. I couldn’t explain why Walter overtook them, but he did. And then they stopped being a pair. And I don’t remember who took over. But yeah, because they weren’t up together when I got to CBS in 72.
Speaker No, they haven’t. Yeah, right. Yeah, but they were still there in 69, so it was somewhere right around in there. I took some notes. Is there anything else that you can maybe a story or anecdote or something?
Speaker Yeah, I’ll tell you, too. This is one of my favorite Walter anecdotes.
Speaker I love this because he retired and he told his wonderful story about how one day after he was out of the business of the nightly report, he actually went out at six thirty one night. Now, all these people walking around and he couldn’t believe it. And he said, gosh, if I had known they were out there walking around, I would have retired earlier.
Speaker Just so sweet. And the other story that I love, which is a little bit about me, but more about him, was it was the bicentennial. It was 1976. And this was a huge thing in the country, the bicentennial. CBS had planned all these things that particularly for that day, July 4th. And he heard that I lived on the top of a building in Washington and was having a party to look at the fireworks that night. And he called me up and he said, you’re having a party on your roof. And I said, I am.
Speaker And he said, could my mother come?
Speaker And I thought, Walter Cronkite’s mother. Oh, goodness. How old was she? And his mother came and she was alive and youngish. His Walter Ryan’s mother, and came up on the roof with the rest of us. And when Walter was on television that night, the whole party came and my television was in my bedroom. And Walter Cronkite’s mother and all my friends sat on my bed and watch Walter together.
Speaker And it was so cool. So cool.
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